Really enjoyed this! I think there’s a couple things that could maybe be added in, but it does really hit the nail on its head, that it’s well just capitalism being capitalism and latching onto trends that’ll bring them the most money. I also feel like blaming women, feminism and romantasy is as with everything the easy thing to do for people, it just reflects our world: humans pick the first group that’s loosely (or not even at all but people just point at them) related to or ‘the face’ of an issue to blame rather than looking at what the actual issue is. (English is not my first language and kinda just left my brain as I’m reading this during a study break and am tired lol, so I hope this comment makes sense, rereading it, it sounds very all over the place sorry 😬)
I work with kids of all ages and I don’t think the culprit of men not reading is adult fiction—it’s the bridge from MG to YA. like it or not, boys simply don’t have that many books designed for them from the ages of 12-15, the formative years when they’re deciding who they’ll be. Now we can argue nonstop about how they should be reading good books regardless of whether they’re about boys or girls, but I do think we need more boy coming of age stories set in the modern world. I can count them on one hand. I do agree with most of your points tho! And I know a ton of men reading fourth wing and loving it right now, so some of the less online ones truly are just looking for good stories, thankfully.
Yes, I might have not worded that part correctly but it’s one point I wanted to make as a huge issue in it all - young boys stop reading (partially because of lack pf books as you point out - which again I’d argue is because of money :/).
Adults should be able to read good books regardless of them being about women or men, but kids/young people should read what appeals to them most as the goal should be to nurture the love for books. I agree.
100% agree. Money driving publishing makes me so sad. Like I get that it’s an industry so they like…have to, but STILL. GEESH. (Also I really appreciated how nuanced this post was I’d like to say! I don’t feel like we get tons of nuance on this issue so thank you for writing this)
Thank you ❤️. I do hope, that things will make a turn for the better. I’ve seen more boutique bookstores pop up lately and I am optimistic this trend will also open new doors, giving chances to local indie authors if nothing else.
This has been a question I've been grappling with lately, as I am writing a romantansy series. I think the critics will always be critical, and can make important points, helping people become better writers. However, I suppose what drew me in to romantasy was I was looking for stories that I could relate to - I started out in YA, female centered without much romance, but then started to thoroughly enjoy the escapism aspect of romance as I got older. Romance is a fantasy for many women, so it would make sense that the two work so well together. Men and women are often living in different realities in our world, and I just always found it harder to relate to the traditional epic fantasy characters as they often feel so differently about those around them. Even in LOTR, the themes of friendship go deep, and although I very much enjoyed those books and they are of course epic, they didn't hit that spot in regards to what friendship really looks like to me.
I'll finish off by saying that it's too bad that women are shamed for enjoying romantasy, and it's a shame really that it is given that title (I hate the term romantasy).
I'm fond of the term, just not the connotation it's been getting. The more I think about romance, and as you point out, the different realities, the more confused I am, I guess. Both men and women love love :), many of them. Both have the same need for affection, at the very least in the beginning - which most romanatsy books cover anyway.
Very interesting read! A couple of points jumped out at me while reading this:
1) I think romantacy is allowing women to unashamedly embrace their sexualities in a world where we're often shamed or told to be submissive. I also agree with you on the escapism part - these books are fun and make for great escapism reads!
2) I think men are more often told that something is only for women than women are told that something is only for men. Gender stereotypes around typically male things are more often challenged and typically female things are more often shamed. I think this creates fewer male readers because if reading is labelled as a 'woman's activity', this notion is less likely to be challenged than if it was labelled a 'male activity'
Agreed. And on point 2, it’s a shame men are still shamed for liking things stereotypically labeled “feminine” both by their male counterparts and women.
I’ve seen similar bandwagons in movies and non-fiction publishing. An original hit publication or box office and suddenly a slew of knockoffs flood the market because there’s a ready audience and a lot of money on the table. In non-fiction it’s usually driven by whatever hot Silicon Valley trend has arisen.
In some cases the trend gets so saturated so quickly it dies choking on its own crap and creatives who genuinely loved being a part of it are cast aside or derided, or never even got the chance to succeed in it.
Like you said, it’s all motivated by greed and to grab the cash as quickly as possible before it collapses.
I want to write a romantic horror short story now. Never done it before but might challenge myself.
I’ll give it a bash. I have an idea in mind but may need to write a couple of examples to bring the darkness closer. First one might be a bit more tongue in cheek.
Very interesting take! I'm a woman writer and I prefer both writing and reading fantasy that only has a moderate to small amount of romance. Found family is my preference. The number if readers who want romantasy makes me also want to dig deeper into the question.
I have so many thoughts on this, but I will preface by saying I wholeheartedly agree with your take.
For one, like you said it is mainly motivated by money, a publisher is (mostly) always going to choose the book they know will sell. And writers are hopping onto the same train. I have noticed before the popularity of ACOTAR, "fae" books varied in stories, basis, and where the inspiration came from. Some took the elemental approach, some the Irish, and some even the Scottish and Welsh. Since the book's popularity, I have noticed the genre start to look eerily familiar, the men, the story, the worldbuilding. It all feels like it is just the same thing packaged with different names.
But the same argument can be made for so many largely successful books. Twilight opened up the vampire and werewolf stories, Harry Potter was a huge impact on writing about magical schools, and Percy Jackson made mythology mainstream. And I see both sides. For me, I am sick of reading the same book over and over again (or straight up avoiding books because it feels monotonous. But that isn't a new issue, and I am EXCITED that reading is mainstream, whatever that looks like.
Because at the end of the day, that opens doors. Maybe romantasy is the gateway for more readers to get into epic fantasy. I mean my coworker started reading romance, and after my recommendation, she is enjoying The Lies of Locke Lamora. And I am hoping to work her into other books (my favorite being the three musketeers).
I don't want to hate on men, but a huge part of the people who hate the genre are male (not all, but enough). But at the end of the day, while romantasy is flooding publishing right now, I would still argue if you looked at the numbers, the amount/percentage of people reading epic fantasy is still higher than it was ten years ago. And while it isn't OWED to romantasy, it is owed to the fact that reading is becoming more "mainstream". But yeah, it is frustrating to see guys say that romantasy isn't "real fantasy."
HOWEVER, even as someone who enjoys the genre (and perhaps this is just me), I feel like the quality of the romantasy/romance genre has diminished because of how much money it is making. And I understand the frustration from writers, men, and women (not that writers aren't either, I should have stated writers and readers), on the difficulty of publishing and quality. Because it feels like instead of story, worldbuilding, and genuine romantic connection, the genre has turned to smut/spice and basic premises just because they put in a few of the "key" things that sell. I mean books are literally published on kindle with tropes in the title AND in the description "enemies to lovers, girl next door, etc." To sum it up, it feels... flat.
That was a really long way of saying I agree.... This just happens to be a topic I am super passionate about. But thank you for posting this, because I feel like it needed to be said.
Agree with all your points. Should probably add that, trad publishing aside, it’s easier to get your book published and out there now than it ever was. A few cleverly crafted social media videos and you have sales (not saying it’s an easy job, just pointing out that a writer that doesn’t excel at their craft but has a good handle on making viral videos can sell their books) - think this helps with the decline of quality. As well as publishers rushing books out to ride the wave.
On that note, I do wish there were clearer genre lines made. I don’t mind smut, nothing against a book that’s 90% smut even if that’s not my cup of tea. But the one where “plot” only serves the smut to smut transition should not be a romantasy (could be spicy romantasy 🤪, or well fantasy erotica). I want my romance/romantasy and smut be the cherry on the top of the story, not the story. They would still sell the same.
Hope this made sense, as I’m writing this pre-coffee.
All good points about what sells, but you didn't really answer the question you posed about the death of literature. I think it is an unassailable fact that the literary standard is diminished as a result of this phenomenon. You say it's zero sum, but then acknowledge winners and losers. I would argue that while sum isn't zero, its hovering closer to that all the time.
I do think it’s zero sum, in the long run. I have years of experience in a different publishing (not book) sphere and there are always ebbs and flows with trends, but quality is the only thing that really persists in the long game. So I do think while the literary standard is bending the knee to the cashgrab at the moment, it will never be diminished. The more people read, the higher their threshold for quality - not always, but many times.
Really enjoyed this! I think there’s a couple things that could maybe be added in, but it does really hit the nail on its head, that it’s well just capitalism being capitalism and latching onto trends that’ll bring them the most money. I also feel like blaming women, feminism and romantasy is as with everything the easy thing to do for people, it just reflects our world: humans pick the first group that’s loosely (or not even at all but people just point at them) related to or ‘the face’ of an issue to blame rather than looking at what the actual issue is. (English is not my first language and kinda just left my brain as I’m reading this during a study break and am tired lol, so I hope this comment makes sense, rereading it, it sounds very all over the place sorry 😬)
Thank you, wholeheartedly agree that’s it’s easier to find blame in “the face”. And yes, your comment makes sense ;)
I work with kids of all ages and I don’t think the culprit of men not reading is adult fiction—it’s the bridge from MG to YA. like it or not, boys simply don’t have that many books designed for them from the ages of 12-15, the formative years when they’re deciding who they’ll be. Now we can argue nonstop about how they should be reading good books regardless of whether they’re about boys or girls, but I do think we need more boy coming of age stories set in the modern world. I can count them on one hand. I do agree with most of your points tho! And I know a ton of men reading fourth wing and loving it right now, so some of the less online ones truly are just looking for good stories, thankfully.
Yes, I might have not worded that part correctly but it’s one point I wanted to make as a huge issue in it all - young boys stop reading (partially because of lack pf books as you point out - which again I’d argue is because of money :/).
Adults should be able to read good books regardless of them being about women or men, but kids/young people should read what appeals to them most as the goal should be to nurture the love for books. I agree.
100% agree. Money driving publishing makes me so sad. Like I get that it’s an industry so they like…have to, but STILL. GEESH. (Also I really appreciated how nuanced this post was I’d like to say! I don’t feel like we get tons of nuance on this issue so thank you for writing this)
Thank you ❤️. I do hope, that things will make a turn for the better. I’ve seen more boutique bookstores pop up lately and I am optimistic this trend will also open new doors, giving chances to local indie authors if nothing else.
I never even thought of it this way, but that would make so much sense.
This has been a question I've been grappling with lately, as I am writing a romantansy series. I think the critics will always be critical, and can make important points, helping people become better writers. However, I suppose what drew me in to romantasy was I was looking for stories that I could relate to - I started out in YA, female centered without much romance, but then started to thoroughly enjoy the escapism aspect of romance as I got older. Romance is a fantasy for many women, so it would make sense that the two work so well together. Men and women are often living in different realities in our world, and I just always found it harder to relate to the traditional epic fantasy characters as they often feel so differently about those around them. Even in LOTR, the themes of friendship go deep, and although I very much enjoyed those books and they are of course epic, they didn't hit that spot in regards to what friendship really looks like to me.
I'll finish off by saying that it's too bad that women are shamed for enjoying romantasy, and it's a shame really that it is given that title (I hate the term romantasy).
I'm fond of the term, just not the connotation it's been getting. The more I think about romance, and as you point out, the different realities, the more confused I am, I guess. Both men and women love love :), many of them. Both have the same need for affection, at the very least in the beginning - which most romanatsy books cover anyway.
Very interesting read! A couple of points jumped out at me while reading this:
1) I think romantacy is allowing women to unashamedly embrace their sexualities in a world where we're often shamed or told to be submissive. I also agree with you on the escapism part - these books are fun and make for great escapism reads!
2) I think men are more often told that something is only for women than women are told that something is only for men. Gender stereotypes around typically male things are more often challenged and typically female things are more often shamed. I think this creates fewer male readers because if reading is labelled as a 'woman's activity', this notion is less likely to be challenged than if it was labelled a 'male activity'
Agreed. And on point 2, it’s a shame men are still shamed for liking things stereotypically labeled “feminine” both by their male counterparts and women.
I’ve seen similar bandwagons in movies and non-fiction publishing. An original hit publication or box office and suddenly a slew of knockoffs flood the market because there’s a ready audience and a lot of money on the table. In non-fiction it’s usually driven by whatever hot Silicon Valley trend has arisen.
In some cases the trend gets so saturated so quickly it dies choking on its own crap and creatives who genuinely loved being a part of it are cast aside or derided, or never even got the chance to succeed in it.
Like you said, it’s all motivated by greed and to grab the cash as quickly as possible before it collapses.
I want to write a romantic horror short story now. Never done it before but might challenge myself.
A romantic horror story - actual horror - would be an amazing read!
I’ll give it a bash. I have an idea in mind but may need to write a couple of examples to bring the darkness closer. First one might be a bit more tongue in cheek.
To bring the darkness closer 😍, yup, you’ve got this.
Very interesting take! I'm a woman writer and I prefer both writing and reading fantasy that only has a moderate to small amount of romance. Found family is my preference. The number if readers who want romantasy makes me also want to dig deeper into the question.
I have so many thoughts on this, but I will preface by saying I wholeheartedly agree with your take.
For one, like you said it is mainly motivated by money, a publisher is (mostly) always going to choose the book they know will sell. And writers are hopping onto the same train. I have noticed before the popularity of ACOTAR, "fae" books varied in stories, basis, and where the inspiration came from. Some took the elemental approach, some the Irish, and some even the Scottish and Welsh. Since the book's popularity, I have noticed the genre start to look eerily familiar, the men, the story, the worldbuilding. It all feels like it is just the same thing packaged with different names.
But the same argument can be made for so many largely successful books. Twilight opened up the vampire and werewolf stories, Harry Potter was a huge impact on writing about magical schools, and Percy Jackson made mythology mainstream. And I see both sides. For me, I am sick of reading the same book over and over again (or straight up avoiding books because it feels monotonous. But that isn't a new issue, and I am EXCITED that reading is mainstream, whatever that looks like.
Because at the end of the day, that opens doors. Maybe romantasy is the gateway for more readers to get into epic fantasy. I mean my coworker started reading romance, and after my recommendation, she is enjoying The Lies of Locke Lamora. And I am hoping to work her into other books (my favorite being the three musketeers).
I don't want to hate on men, but a huge part of the people who hate the genre are male (not all, but enough). But at the end of the day, while romantasy is flooding publishing right now, I would still argue if you looked at the numbers, the amount/percentage of people reading epic fantasy is still higher than it was ten years ago. And while it isn't OWED to romantasy, it is owed to the fact that reading is becoming more "mainstream". But yeah, it is frustrating to see guys say that romantasy isn't "real fantasy."
HOWEVER, even as someone who enjoys the genre (and perhaps this is just me), I feel like the quality of the romantasy/romance genre has diminished because of how much money it is making. And I understand the frustration from writers, men, and women (not that writers aren't either, I should have stated writers and readers), on the difficulty of publishing and quality. Because it feels like instead of story, worldbuilding, and genuine romantic connection, the genre has turned to smut/spice and basic premises just because they put in a few of the "key" things that sell. I mean books are literally published on kindle with tropes in the title AND in the description "enemies to lovers, girl next door, etc." To sum it up, it feels... flat.
That was a really long way of saying I agree.... This just happens to be a topic I am super passionate about. But thank you for posting this, because I feel like it needed to be said.
Agree with all your points. Should probably add that, trad publishing aside, it’s easier to get your book published and out there now than it ever was. A few cleverly crafted social media videos and you have sales (not saying it’s an easy job, just pointing out that a writer that doesn’t excel at their craft but has a good handle on making viral videos can sell their books) - think this helps with the decline of quality. As well as publishers rushing books out to ride the wave.
On that note, I do wish there were clearer genre lines made. I don’t mind smut, nothing against a book that’s 90% smut even if that’s not my cup of tea. But the one where “plot” only serves the smut to smut transition should not be a romantasy (could be spicy romantasy 🤪, or well fantasy erotica). I want my romance/romantasy and smut be the cherry on the top of the story, not the story. They would still sell the same.
Hope this made sense, as I’m writing this pre-coffee.
All good points about what sells, but you didn't really answer the question you posed about the death of literature. I think it is an unassailable fact that the literary standard is diminished as a result of this phenomenon. You say it's zero sum, but then acknowledge winners and losers. I would argue that while sum isn't zero, its hovering closer to that all the time.
I do think it’s zero sum, in the long run. I have years of experience in a different publishing (not book) sphere and there are always ebbs and flows with trends, but quality is the only thing that really persists in the long game. So I do think while the literary standard is bending the knee to the cashgrab at the moment, it will never be diminished. The more people read, the higher their threshold for quality - not always, but many times.